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Vets & Idiopathic head tremor Started by Denis Carthy IP Address 86.144.201.46	Posted: July 6, 2006 at 18:22

I am interested in finding out if UK vets specificaly, in ordinary routine pet practice are currently familiar with Idiopathic head tremour symptoms. I ask because I had dog which started to display this condition at around 6-7 months, in 1995. At that time I could not find one single vet who had any idea at all what it was, or was familiar with the symptoms, outside epilepsy. So I would just like to know if, 11 years on, is this a condition which would be readily identified by most UK vets? thanks. 13868

Re: Vets & Idiopathic head tremor Reply #1 by Sarah 2 IP Address 212.84.102.28	Posted: July 6, 2006 at 21:00

Sorry - never heard of it. Can't say i've seen many dogs with head tremor anyway either. 13870

Re: Vets & Idiopathic head tremor Reply #2 by Anon IP Address 195.93.21.1	Posted: July 6, 2006 at 21:35

Perhaps it is dennis's head that has the tremor. 13872

Re: Vets & Idiopathic head tremor Reply #3 by Denis Carthy IP Address 86.144.201.46	Posted: July 6, 2006 at 21:43

Thanks Sarah, I dont know how common it is, probably not very, but I would imagine if a vet comes across it once every 10 years they would probably never bother mentioning it, so if the condition was on the increase any increase would not be noticed untill it became a 'breed problem'. My dogs are Dobes from European lines and have been for 30 years, however that one was mixed with some UK breeding. I know only that the condition is found in Dobermanns, English Bulldogs and more recently I have seen reports of Cavalier King Charles showing it,thats my limit of awareness to breed specificity. 13874

Re: Vets & Idiopathic head tremor Reply #4 by Denis Carthy IP Address 86.144.201.46	Posted: July 6, 2006 at 21:52

Anon it is de'nn'is's Denis Hey! there's only one N in my name. 13877

Re: Vets & Idiopathic head tremor Reply #5 by anon IP Address 82.32.33.116	Posted: July 6, 2006 at 22:09

Perhaps it is caused by an electric collar Denis 13878

Re: Vets & Idiopathic head tremor Reply #6 by Denis Carthy IP Address 86.144.201.46	Posted: July 6, 2006 at 22:28

Anon Perhaps it is caused by an electric collar Denis Denis Highlighting your limited knowledge - the opposite is true, it was because of the head tremor that dog went on to an e - collar. Because the condition is idiopathic no one knows what might or might not exacerbate it and because I could only use what most people call 'positive training' he was pulling, thats extremely dangerous to any dog but with an idiopathic condition involving a head tremor the limited use e-collars of that period were the best and safest way of stopping the pulling and eliminating any potential risk of lead pulling exacerbating such an unknown condition. So, now you have learned a little bit about a condition not often brought up in a topic and an application of the safest aid, an obsolete e-collar, to reduce possible risks, you are becoming an informed anonymous person. 13879

Re: Vets & Idiopathic head tremor Reply #7 by anon IP Address 82.32.33.116	Posted: July 6, 2006 at 22:48

You will never inform me DENIS I could never take you seriously I think you are on another planet full stop. 13880

Re: Vets & Idiopathic head tremor Reply #8 by vetty type IP Address 84.64.29.107	Posted: July 7, 2006 at 10:19

Denis, I would contact Stone Lion vets in London: Goddard Veterinary Group Wanstead Veterinary Hospital 84 New Wanstead Wanstead London E11 2SY Tel: +44 (0) 20 8989 7744 Fax: +44 (0) 20 8532 2821 Email: admin@goddardvetgroup.co.uk and speak to Claire Rusbridge. She is a veterinary neurologist who has recently discussed breed related CNS problems 13885

Re: Vets & Idiopathic head tremor Reply #9 by Annie Darcy IP Address 87.74.127.221	Posted: July 7, 2006 at 10:43

Please show some respect for other users of this forum Anon and just stop whatever it is you are up to. There are clearly a minority of 5 or 6 posters intent on disruption and incapable of any intelligent input roaming this site and its easy enough to narrow down your ‘Anon’ to one of them. We have had the misfortune to pick and English Bulldog and it is one of the most emotionally traumatic 4 years of my life, my poor little boy is now going blind after his short 4 years of terrible health problems and the whole family is in emotional turmoil as to whether we should end his suffering. To bump into and read such petty nonsense such as yours whilst in the process of terrible decision making on these forums is beyond the pale. I want to learn about dog health problems and anything else useful Anon and your interruptions here and on other posts is a selfish act, totally disgraceful and certainly irrational, shut up for Gods sake or start your own topic. Thank You Annie Darcy. 13887

Re: Vets & Idiopathic head tremor Reply #10 by Anon IP Address 195.93.21.1	Posted: July 7, 2006 at 11:39

and Denis's other posts to people where he went on about sex aids etc when Linda was talking about e collars were rational and useful where they? Perhaps you should address you comments to those peole who are using irrational statements like those. 13888

Re: Vets & Idiopathic head tremor Reply #11 by vetty type IP Address 84.67.11.19	Posted: July 7, 2006 at 12:04

sorry Denis, I reread your message and realise now the crux of your question. No, I would say this is not something readily identified by first opinion in practice vets. On seeing a case I would hit the books and probably contact my local neurological referral centre. It may still be worth contacting Dr Rusbridge, as I know she has been involved in such things, raising awareness of this sort of condition. 13889

Re: Vets & Idiopathic head tremor Reply #12 by anon IP Address 82.32.33.116	Posted: July 7, 2006 at 12:28

Sorry Annie Darcy everyone is entitled to an opinion not just yours. 13890

Re: Vets & Idiopathic head tremor Reply #13 by Dog Lover IP Address 195.93.21.1	Posted: July 7, 2006 at 14:08

#12 This is an open forum and the only one entitled to stop peoples comments is the forum moderator. As anon says above, everyone is entitled to an opinion. There are far more outrageous posts than any made by whichever anon this is so perhaps you could address your comments to them Mrs Darcy. What can be classed as 'Intelligent input' is subjective. 13892

Re: Vets & Idiopathic head tremor Reply #14 by Sheena IP Address 195.93.21.1	Posted: July 7, 2006 at 23:41

Annie, I am very sorry that such a young dog has so many health problems. I wonder if you know that a lack of taurine in your dog's food could make it go blind. Although dogs make their own taurine, I have a research paper from America which says that dogs fed pet food nevertheless had low blood taurine and this can give them enlarged hearts or make them go blind. It is very worrying that such a young dog has so many health problems and I know another dog owner who has a young dog which has phenomenal health problems which have made the owenr at her wits end because no Vet can seem to cure them so I sincerely sympathise with you since it is very hard emotionally to have to cope with an animal that has serious health problems but Vets are failing to question why animals are getting such terrible health problems. If you think a lack of taurine could be what is making your dog go blind if you feed it raw food this contains sufficient taurine. 13897

Re: Vets & Idiopathic head tremor Reply #15 by Denis Carthy IP Address 86.141.196.247	Posted: July 8, 2006 at 09:53

Reply 11 by vetty type - Posted: July 7, 2006 at 12:04 sorry Denis, I reread your message and realise now the crux of your question. No, I would say this is not something readily identified by first opinion in practice vets. On seeing a case I would hit the books and probably contact my local neurological referral centre. Denis Hi vetty type – Yes that’s what I meant. Going back to 1995 I rushed my dog to the vets as an emergency on the first episode, he was 6-7 months old at that time and I had absolutely no idea at all what was happening, I had seen nothing like it, his head just started shaking and it was clear he had no control over it. I was to shocked to notice the fact he was not showing any concern or awareness of anything wrong at all. By the time I got there it had stopped so all the vet had to go off was my description, which he identified as a description of a non seizure epilepsy tremor but my dog was quite simply showing no signs of anything at all, nothing. I wanted him in overnight at least for observation, which the did, went back in the morning and they did some epilepsy tests but nothing at all was observed overnight. In short this went on for around 4 months, loads of tests, no pattern of any kind to the tremor but at that age very frequent, could be 5 1 min tremor per hour or the same per day or 1 5 min tremor per hour but never at any point was there any sign the dog was anything but unaware of it, he would play, respond to commands he had at that age, just no problems showing. The big problem was that it never happened at the vets so he never saw it. It caused catastrophic problems with his training schedual, the teaching phase in males is 4 weeks to around 7-9 months, at that point the dog is in a critical stage and the 6-8 weeks formal environmental safety and legal requirement obedience program must start or you can end up with a lifetime of problems, I never started it because of what was a totally unknown condition suspected as a form of epilepsy. Cut a long story short. The vet was not concerned after 4 months or so, he had never heard or seen anything like it and was unable to identify it as anything beyond described symptoms of some form of non seizure "so far" epilepsy but all the tests done had shown no identifiable epilepsy traces at all. I was at that stage not as concerned as I was in the beginning, the vet said there was no point keep seeing him unless there were changes of any kind, he gave it no name. In 1996 I first went on the net, joined a dog epilepsy email group and within 24 hours I the name and loads of information from US. It is known as Idiopathic head tremor and at that point it was known to occur in Dobermanns and English Bulldogs. It is not known to be harmful in any way and one neurologist from a US uni had studied it extensively, he was the opinion it was neurological in origin but could not identify any cause. I was given a few options to stop an episode one was to give food, and wow, that worked for all his life with around 90% success. It decreases in frequency at around 2 and remains for the rest of dogs life but bouts are totally unpredictable, maybe only one episode once per year or maybe a week or two of frequent episodes. I would like to see this condition as common knowledge to all UK vets. It is very traumatic for an owner who has to live in the unknown and without any information of any kind except the expectation that the dog will suddenly go into a seizure at any time and testing and testing is obviously costly. I would like to see more vets comment on this on this forum just to get some feedback as to how unknown to UK vets this condition is. I read somewhere within this past year that CKC have been reported as showing the condition, I had no refs to that breed in 1996. vetty type It may still be worth contacting Dr Rusbridge, as I know she has been involved in such things, raising awareness of this sort of condition. Denis Yes your right, I will email her and ask her to either give me something to put on here or preferably put something on herself. 13901

Re: Vets & Idiopathic head tremor Reply #16 by Annie Darcy IP Address 84.9.38.70	Posted: July 11, 2006 at 09:24

Thanks sheena, thats interesting but its heridtory, his pallat has been operated on, his breathing is terrible and lots of other stuff. My vet did not state it directly but we have the impression he is not happy about this breed being bred at all, our first dog, maybe our last. 13953

Re: Vets & Idiopathic head tremor Reply #17 by Sheena IP Address 195.93.21.1	Posted: July 11, 2006 at 11:35

Annie, I am so very sorry that your dog has all these health problems and I know it must be hard for you to cope with since I know the distress I felt over the illness my cats had. 13956

Re: Vets & Idiopathic head tremor Reply #18 by cj IP Address 68.228.184.225	Posted: January 16, 2007 at 13:43

my english bulldog had a sudden onset of head tremors starting 3 days ago. it has been very upsetting since she is at about 50 days pregnant. we had her to the vet and she said that it is idiopathic head tremors and that it is not harmful and that it will not affect her pregnancy. i am still concerned though and wonder if this is heredtary and if can be passed on to the puppies. i can't find much info on the cause. thanks if anyone has any info, cj ohio, us 25051

Re: Vets & Idiopathic head tremor Reply #19 by Geoff IP Address 217.44.194.131	Posted: January 16, 2007 at 20:57

Diagnosis of brain problems is always difficult and may need to go as far as sampling the fluid around the brain and MRI scanning, neither of which is a very good thing to do in pregnancy. It would be reasonable to get some bloods run just to make sure there is no glaringly obvious systemic medical illness affecting things that could alter neuro function- calcium, glucose, sodium & potassium. 25065

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